saia-s pozicia ar aris kategoriuli...
maRalCinosanTa sasamarTllo procesebze da
sxva mniSvnelovan sakiTxebze gvesaubreba
axalgazrda iuristTa asociaciis Tavjdomare kaxa
koJoriZe
- maRalCinosanTa sasamarTlo
procesebi aris iseTi Tema, romelsac detaluri Seswavla Wirdeba..saqarTvelosAaxalgazrda
iuristTa asosciacias (saia-s) sisxlis samarTlebrivi saqmis Seswavlis da
sakuTari poziciis dafiqsirebis didi xnis praqtika aqvs. Cvens organizacias, 2011 da 2012 wlebSi hqonda kvlevebi, savaraudod, politikuri
motivebiT dapatimrebul pirebTan dakavSirebiT, magram manam, sanam Cveni
iuristebi daskvnas gaakeTebdnen (ama Tu im konkretuli piris saqme, SeiZleba
politikuri motivebiT yofiliyo ganpirobebuli), Cven Tveebis ganmavlobaSi,
vswavlobdiT masalebs da mxolod, amis Semdeg vaZlevdiT Tavs uflebas garkveul daskvnamde mivsuliyaviT. aRniSnul sakiTxTan
dakavSirebiT, saia-s manamdeli da axlandeli poziciebi ar aris kategoriuli, Cven ar vambobT, rom romelime
konkretuli piri aris politikutri patimari, aramed gamovTqvamT mxolod varauds. saerTod,
kategoriuli poziciebis dafiqsirebis
mandati Cven ar gvaqvs. rogorc ukve aRvniSne, yvela saqmes arsobrivi Sefaseba
da saqmis srulyofili Seswavla Wirdeba.Y marTali giTxraT, yofili maRali
Tanamdebobis pirebis yvela saqme, namdvilad ar gvaqvs Seswavlili da
Sesabamisad, mTliani suraTis daxatva am kuTxiT, Cveni mxridan SeuZlebelia.
Tumca, aris saqmeebi romelzec Cven gvaqvs Cveni pozicia dafiqsirebuli da amas
mokleT mogaxsenebT.
magaliTad, gigi ugulavas saqmesTan dakavSirebiT.. rogorc cnobilia, ugulavas
ramdenime braldeba aqvs wayenebuli da sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebebi Tu
prokuraturis poziciebi garkveul kiTxvebs badebs. erT-erT saqmeze, 2013 wlis dasawyisSi, rodesac
prokuraturam aRmkveTi RonisZiebis saxiT moiTxova patimrobis gamoyeneba,
sasamarTlom is ar daakmayofila anu arc patimroba, an sxva saxis aRmkveTi
RonisZieba ar gamoiyena da maSin, gaCnda
eWvi imisa, rom xom ar aris sasamarTlo loialuri yofili maRali Tanamdebobis
saaqmeebTan dakavSirebiT?
- axalgazrda
iuristTa asociacia sasamarTlo monitoringis kvlevas Tu awarmoebs ?
-Cveni organizacia, yovel 6 TveSi atarebs sasamarTlo monitoringis
kvlevas, Tumca, es ar exeba mxolod maRali Tanamdebobis pirebis saqmeebs, CvenTan
zogadad SemTxveviTi SerCevis principiT xdeba saqmeebis arCeva. Tavdapirvelma
kvlevam, garadamaval etapze - 2012-2013 wels, aseTi suraTi warmoaCina:
sasamarTlo, yofil maRalCinosanTa saqmeebis mimarT, ufro met loialurobas iCenda,
vidre rigiTi moqalaqeebis mimarT. magaliTad, gigi ugulavas mimarT gamotanili iyo
uprecendento gadawyvetileba, roca sasamarTlom mas arcerTi aRmkveTi RonisZieba
ar Seufarda. Cveni kvlevebi, 2012 wlis arCevnebamde, aCvenebda im realobas, rom
prokuraturis yvela Suamdgomlob,a es exeboda goraos, patimrobas da a.S. zustad
ise sruldeboda, rogorc amas prokuratura iTxovda. saia-s kvlevebis Sedegad, ar
gamovlenila arcerTi SemTxveva, rom sasamarTlos
mieRos prokuraturis moTxovnisa da Suamdgomlobisagan gansxvavebuli
ganCineba... es cxadia, didi problema iyo...
- ramdenad Tanmimdevruli iyo
prokuratura da sasamarTlo gigi ugulavasaTan dakavSirebiT?
-gigi ugulavas saqmes rac
Seexeba, gamoZiebis procesSi da Semdeg, sasamarTlos moqmedebebSi, ukve
sapirispiro mxridan gaCnda eWvebi.
manmade Tu vfiqrobdiT, rom sasamarTlo loialurobas iCenda, mere, ukve gaCnda kiTxvebi
misi Tanamdebobidan gadayenebasTan dakavSirebiT. Bbundovan situaciaSi miRebuli
gadawyvetileba, ra Tqma unda, gviCens kiTxveb, Tu ramdenad obieqturi iyo
sasamarTlo? xom ar arsebobda zewolis faqtebi? sakonstitucio sasamarTlom gaauqma
is norma, riTac ugulava Tanamdebobidan
gadaayenes, Semdeg man mimarTa
sasamarTlos - Tanamdebobaze aRdgenasTan dakavSirebiT, sadac warmoCinda
sasamarTlos midgomis xarvezianoba.
-sasamarTlos xarvezebi, konkretulad, raSi gamoixateboda?
- Cveni SefasebiT, prokuratura
da sasamarTloc xelovnurad cdilobda
saqmis ganxilvis gaWianurebas, raTa gigi ugulava Tanamdebobaze ar dabrunebuliyo
- 2014 wlis adgilobrivi TviTmarTvelobis arCevnebamde. magaliTad, ramdenime procesze aseTi SemTxveva
moxda, roca prokurorebi yvela erTdoulad wavidnen baTumSi (saproceso
zedamxedvelobis gansaxoecieleblad) da iTxoves saqmis ganxilvis gadadeba...
Seiqmna STabeWdileba, rom es yvelaferi xelovnurad xdeboda, raSic sasamarTloc monawileobda.
Aam ukanasknels SeeZlo, rom sapatiod ar CaeTvala prokuraturis Suamdgomloba
- saqmis ganxilvis gadadebasTan
dakavSirebiT da maTi monawileobis gareSe
CaetarebinaT sasamarTlo procesi, rac sasamarTlom ar gaakeTa. Aase rom, kiTxvebi
ramdenad Tanmimdevruli iyo prokuratura da sasamarTlo gigi ugulavasaTan
dakavSirebiT arsebobs.
A aseve, Sevexebi baCo
axalaias saqmes.. aqac erTis mxriv, problemuri iyo is, rom roca sasamarTlom baCo axalaias gamamytunebeli ganaCeni gamoutana,
maSindelma prezidentma igi ise Seiwyala,
rom arc daeloda zemdgomi instanciebis gadawyvetilebebs.. ai, aqac gamoCnda subieqturi midgoma mixeil
saakasvilis mxridan. Cveni SefasebiT, problemuria is sakiTxi, rom dRevandlamde (Tu ar CavTliT im gamamtyunebel ganaCens,
razec prezidents ukve Sewyalebis aqti aqvs miRebuli), gamamtynebeli ganaCeni baCo
axalaiasTan mimarTebaSi, kanonier ZalaSi
Sesuli ar aris da is imyofeba winaswar patimrobaSi, roca erT saqmeze
gadis vada, Semdeg sxva brals warudgens prokuratura da axlidan ufardebes winaswar patimrobas.
saqarTvelos konstituciiT
gansazRvrulia winaswari patimrobis vada da igi unda iyos 9 Tveze meti, magram
gavida vada... praqtikaSi es ase
ganisazRvreba: 9 Tve erT saqmeze da
prokuraturac am logikiT midis...Aamitom, Cndeba eWvi, rom axali braldebebis wardgena
xdeba imitom, rom baCo axalaia
patimrobidan ar gaTavisufldes. roca
samarTlebriv Sefasebazea saubari, CvenTvis ara aqvs mniSvneloba konkretul gvarsa da saxels. Aanu winaswari patimrobis xangrZlivi
periodi baCo axalaiasTan dakavSirebiT, Cven problematurad migvaCnia. Tumca,
formaluri TvalsazrisiT, kananTan winaaRmdegoba ar gvaqvs.
-mixeil saakasvilis saqmeze
ras gvetyodiT, ramdenad dasabuTebuli iyo mis mimarT winaswari patimrobis
Sefardeba?
-am da sxva saqmeebsac aqvs politikuri da samarTlebrivi Sefaseba. Cveni
organizacia ki, mxolod samarTlebriv
Sefasebas akeTebs. Tu ratom Tqva uari
saqarTvelos yofilma prezidentma mowmis saxiT, dakiTxvis procedurebSi monawileobis
miRebaze, samarTlebrivi argumenti ar arsebobs. is valdebuli iyo, Tavis droze, pasuxi
gaeca samarTaldamcavi organoebisTvis, miTumetes
maSin, rodesac prokuraturam SesTavaza distanciuri dakiTxva - skaipis meSveobiT.
ratom Tqva man uari aseT SeTavazebaze, gaugebaria da rogorc aRvniSne, amis Sesaxeb samarTlebrivi argumenti ar arsebobs, is valdebuli iyo Cveneba mieca . aseTi qmedebiT yofilma
prezidentma saqarTvelos kanonmdebloba daarRvia.
rac Seexeba aRmkveTi
RonisZiebis saxiT mis mimarT patimrobis Sefardebas.. saia-s iuristi eswreboda
im sasamarTlo process, rodesac saakaSvili patimrobis Sefardeba moxda... Cven
gamoviTxoveT sasamarTlos ganCineba da igi safuZvlianad SeviswavleT,
ris Semdegac am saqmesTan dakavSirebiT gavakeTed Sefaseba. migvaCnia, rom
prokuraturis pozicia da argumentebi, romelic Semdeg sasamarTlos mier iqna
gaziarebuli, namdvilad ar iZleva imis Tqmis saSualebas, rom yofili prezidentis
mimarT, dausabuTebeli ganCineba
iqna miRebuli winaswari patimrobis Sefardebis dros. Pprokuraturas hqonda
ramdenime mniSvnelovani argumenti rac sasamarTlom Tavis gadawyvetilebaSi asaxa
da mTlianobaSi, winaswari patimrobis Sefardeba dausabuTebeli ar yofila.
-rogor fiqrobT,
unda gamocxaddes Tu ara saerTaSoriso Zebna yofil prezidentze?
-Cven ver getyviT unda
gamocxaddes Tu ara saakaSvilze, an adeiSvilze saerTaSoriso Zebna.. Tu rogor
cxaddeba anu ra procedurebia gamocxadebis, amaze SemiZlia pasuxis gacema. rogorc
ukve aRvniSne, Aaxalgazrda iuristTa asociacias SeuZlia, mxolod,Pprocedurebis ganmarteba.
-,,Cvil bavSvTa
saqmeebi’’-ze ra informacia gaqvT? Ggavrcelda informacia, rom qarTvel bavSvebs sazRvargareT aSvileben...
-am saxiTxze mirCevnia im advokatma isaubros, vinc uSualod am
sakiTxze muSaobda. Aamitom,Ddetalebs ver mogaxsenebT, magram is informacia, rac CvenTvis iqna mowodebuli
migvaniSnebda, rom am saqmeSi namdvilad iyo konkretuli mtkicebulebebi, romelic,
savaraudod, miuTiTebda danaSaulis Cadenaze da Sesabamisad, samarTaldamcavi
organoebis moqmedeba visurvebdiT, rom
ufro efeqturi yofiliyo aRniSnul saqmesTan dakavSirebiT.
-premier ministrma rom
usayvedura arasamTavrobo organizaciebs
da araobieqturobaSi dasdo maT brali, amasTan dakavSirebiT ra azris xarT?
-es exeboda Cvens mier wamowyebul kampanias ,, es Sen gexeba’’ ... axalgazrda
iuristTa asociaciis da Cveni partniori organizaciebis moTxovna iyo is, rom
xelisuflebam, romelmac memkvidreobiT miiRo didi problemebi -adamianis uflebebis sferoSi
da maT Soris, ukanono mosmenebis da faruli TvalTvalis saxiT, valdebuli iyo am
kuTxiT sistemuri reformebi ganexorcielebina. Msamwuxaroa, rom xelisufleba araTu
gamovida aRniSnuli reformebis iniciatorad, aramed avtorTa jgufis mier momzadebuli kanonproeqti,
romelic sistemur reformas isaxavda
miznad ( Cvens kanonmdeblobaSi evropuli
standartebis danergvas, Tu rogor unda ganxoecielebuliyo faruli
sagamoZiebo moqmedebebi), parlamentSi, Tveebis ganmavlobaSi daido Taroze da
misi realuri ganxilva ar dawyebula, ris gamoc Cven gadavwyviteT, gvewarmoebina
samoqalaqo kampania ,,es Sen gexeba’’ - farul mosmenebTan dakavSirebiT, raTa
dagverwmunebina xeliusufleba, rom es kanonproeqti iyo misaRebi da am sistemuri
reformebis gatareba iyo aucilebeli. warmoudgenelia, Qqveyanam, romelmac
memkvidreobiT 20 000 meti ukanono Canaweri miiRo da amis gamo, aravin ar
dasaja. am danaSaulrbriv qmedebaSi albaT, samarTaldamcavi organoebidan
aTeulobiT adamiani iyo CarTuli.Aam fonze, aRniSnuli kampaniis dawyeba
absoluturad gamarTlebuli iyo da Cveni mTavari mizani iyo xelisuflebis
darwmuneba imaSi, rom es iyo didi problema, romelic unda mogvarebuliyo. Tumca,
Sedegad miviReT premieris mxridan
absoluturad daumsaxurebeli kritika, rac Zalian sawyenia. saxifaTo da ara
sworia, roca maRali Taqnamdebobis piri sakuTar moqalaqeebs, faqtobrivad, Ralats
abralebs.
,,mizanmimarTuli,
ZirgamomTxreli saqmianoba qveynis interesebis sawinaaRmdegod’’- ai, aseTi
sityvebi Tqva premier ministrma arasamTavroebis mimarT, aseT saqmianobas xom mxolod
mteri da moRalate awarmoebs!. SeiZleba viRacas raRaca SeeSalos, magram es
mizanmimarTuli, ZirgamomTxreli saqmianoba ar iqneba! Cven yvelafers
gacnobierebulad da kanonis farglebSi
vakeTebdiT da Tqma imisa, rom katastrofuli kanonproeqti da ZirgamomTxrel
saqmianobas veweodiT cxadia, dasabuTebuli ar iyo. premier ministrma es gancxadeba gaakeTa maSin,
roca Cveni kanonproeqti, parlaments pirveli mosmeniT, ukve miRebuli qonda. kanonproeqti moiwona aramarto
sakanonmdeblo organom, aramed iusticiis ministrmac. sxvaTaSoris, Semdeg
premierma aRniSna, rom gadaaWarba Tavis SefasebebSi da mixvda, rom araswori
gancxadeba gaakeTa.
-asocirebis xelSekrulebis
Rirseba da nakli ra aris?
-naklze namdvilad ar gvifiqria da
asocirebis xelSekrulebas mxolod, pozitiurad vafasebT. Ees aris
xelSekruleba, romelic qveynis ganviTarebis umniSvnelovanes aspeqtebs exeba -
ekonomikuri Tu adamianis uflebebis dacvis TvalsazrisiT. saxelmwifom aiRo valdebuleba, raTa qveyanaSi arsebuli
mdgomareoba aamaRlos, gazardos da miusadagos evropul standartebs. Aasocirebis
xelSekruleba da dRis wesrigi, ukve gansazRvravs TiToeul mniSvnelovan saqmes, Tu romelma saministrom ra Sedegi unda
aCvenos, ra reforma unda gaataros, rac cxadia pozitiurad aisaxeba adamianis
uflebebis dacvaze. cudia is, rom asocirebis xelSekrulebis Sesaxeb sazogadoeba
naklebad aris informirebuli. Mmosaxleobam unda icodes, Tu ras niSnavs
asocirebis xelSekruleba, ra Sedegebis momtania da momavalSi, rogor gaumjobesdeba maTi cxovreba.
-axal savizo politikaze ra აზრის ხართ?
-albaT, vizebis gacemis gamkacrebas gulisxmobT? Ees sakiTxic
ukavSirdeba evrokavSirTan Cvens mier aRebul valdebulebas. qveyanaSi,
mowesrigebuli unda iyos vizebis gacemis sakiTxi da igi, unda daregulirdes
saTanadod. rig SemTxvevaSi, procedurebi an kanonmdeblobaa dasaxvewia. Cven ar
vfiqrobT, rom ufro gamkacrebuli reJimi daarRvevs im adamianis uflebebs, visac
saqarTvelosi Semosvlis survili aqvs..
-rogor fiqrobT, ram gamoiwvia
qveyanaSi kriminogenuli fonis gaaqtiureba?
-Ees Zalian mniSvnelovani sakiTxia. bolo dros, samwuxarod, xSirad vismenT informacias,
sxvadasxva mZime danaSaulebebis Sesaxeb.
aRniSnulTan dakavSirebiT, Sss-s aqvs
aseTi pozicia, rom kriminogenuli viTareba ar mZimdeba da amis dasadastureblad mohyavs
adrindeli da axlandeli statistika, romelsac erTmaneTs adarebs da aqedan
gamomdinare akeTebs daskvnas. Cven meti informacia gtvWirdeba imisTvis, rom es
davijeroT, pirvel rigSi unda vicodeT adre ra meTodiT awarmoebdnen da axla rogor adgenen statistikas. Tu erTi da
igive meTodologiaa, maSin Sedarebis saSualeba iqneba, magram Tu gansxvavebulia,
an yvela monacemi Setanili ar aris, aseT
SemTxvevaSi statistika ar iqneba obieqturi. me ar maqvs mtkicebuleba da saTanado safuZveli imisa, rom aRvniSno Sss sazogadoebas
araswor statistikur monacemebs awvdis. arsebobs argumentebi, rom wlebis manZilze, msgavsi informacia ar Suqdeboda, magram sazogadoebisTvis
es veraferi nugeSia. Aamdeni mkvleloba marTlac sagangaSo statistikaa da
calsaxad, miuTiTebs xelisuflebis valdebulebaze. Ffaqtia, rom danaSaulis prevenciis
TvalsazrisiT gadamWreli zomebia misaRebi. erT garemoebas minda gausva xazi,
profesionalizmi da kvalificiuri kadrebi nebismier sferoSia saWiro. miTumetes, roca maRali Tanamdebobis
piria, is kidev ufro metad profesionali unda iyos. Msamwuxarod, dRevandeli Sss
ministri ar aris im kvalifikaciis da profesionalizmiT aRWurvili, romelsac me
visurvebdi am Tanamdebobaze. WikaiZe SeiZleba iyos kargi adamiani, an kargi
polociis muSaki, magram CemTvis am Tamamdebobaze misaRebi kandidati ar aris. qveyanaSi, roca Sss-s ministreze mimdinareobs
qiliki, es ra Tqma unda uaryofiTad aisaxeba mTlianad sistemaze. Mministrs aqvs warmomadgenlobiTi
uflebamosileba is unda iyos saministros
saxe da uwyebaSi yvelaze didi profesionali...
Mmzia gogoZe